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This interview with Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi was part of the research carried out for a doctoral thesis whose title is: “Sufi epistemology meets modernity in the tariqa of the Sufi master Abdalqadir as-Sufi”.
The interview is being released for the benefit of the Fuqara and all those who want to learn about Islam and Sufism.
Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir has taught that:
(i) Sufism has its origins in Islam.
(ii) Shari’a and Sufism are inextricably connected.
(iii) Politics is an essential element of shari’a.
Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi further indicated that the means to solve the most crucial problems facing contemporary society can be found in al-Muwatta of Imam Malik ibn Anas.
Imam Malik’s teaching on ‘amal ahl al-Madinah (the practice of the first three generations of Muslims in Madina) removes the split between the internal and external aspects of human personality, contains the methodology by which to determine right conduct (usul al-fiqh), and affirms the relationship between belief and political power.
For Imam Malik, practice or behavior is the confirmation of knowledge or, to put it another way, ‘amal ahl al-Madinah guarantees that theory and practice are inseparable.
According to Imam Malik’s view, the Deen of Islam is not something that people think about but something that is done; the truth of the Deen is attained through practical action which, in turn, leads to the knowledge of deeper levels of being (ma’rifa).
Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir notes that when there is a split between the internal and external dimensions of the human personality, as is the predominant case in modern society, human beings lose touch with reality (haqiqa).
The mass psychosis of modern society is not based on the acceptance of the propagandist and fictitious versions of democracy and capitalism promoted by the media.
The main cause of psychosis lies in the very center of the capitalist system, in its motive force: the usurious supply of money and the oligarchy.
Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir holds the view that the cause of the crisis of modern civilization is the rejection of Divine guidance, and he has dedicated his life to making this guidance accessible to mankind.
Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir is a Shaykh of Tarbiyya (teaching) and the leader of the Tariqa Qadiri-Shadhili-Darqawi.
He is also the founder of the World Murabitun Movement and Dallas College.
Riyad Asvat
The Interview
Riyadh: Thank you very much for giving me some of your time, Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi.
My questions are basic and concrete but take as much time as you want to answer them. Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: If you will allow me, I would like to make a comment.
I would like to say that, from the day I became a Muslim until now, there has only been one moment when I changed my opinions and my position; that’s when Shaykh al-Fayturi put me in Jalwa.
When I came out, I was in a state that could be described as bewilderment and so I said to the Shaykh: ‘What should I do now?’ Shaykh al-Fayturi replied: ‘After having been in the House of Allah one cannot go anywhere else but Madinah.’
It was from that moment that I realized that the very foundations of Islam had been abandoned. On the question of Tasawwuf is axiomatic and everyone agrees that there is no Sufism without the shari’a of Islam.
But the truth of the matter is that Islam has been abandoned.
One cannot have a full Tasawwuf without having established the foundations of Islam.
Today, the pillar of zakat has fallen, as there is no place for zakat collectors to act.
Zakat is not a sadaqa that is given, it has to be taken, collected.
It is the very foundation of the Muslim state.
In the Qur’an we find that it says: “Purify yourselves with zakat.”
Since Tasawwuf is the purification of the ‘self’, it means that you will not be able to achieve it unless you have zakat.
You cannot speak of ‘states’ and seasons’, you cannot speak of dhawq, you cannot even dare to mention fana and baqa if you do not have the fundamentals of zakat.
You can’t have Sufism in a brothel.
This is the question.
All the work aimed at re-establishing the foundations of fiqh has gone against the abandonment of the Deen from Islam, especially by the Arabs themselves.
The background of my activity has been to counter this trend and to expose the deception contained in the idea that the Shi’a are a sect of Islam, when in fact they are anti-Islam.
By way of summary I would like to say that Tasawwuf is Futuwwa.
It’s not Ma’rifa.
Ma’rifa is the secret of Tasawwuf, but Tasawwuf itself is Futuwwa.
It is the building and creation of excellence in jama’at.
This is the Tasawwuf.
Hidden in it is the secret of Ma’rifa and only Allah knows where it goes among the fuqara.
This is my fundamental position: Tasawwuf is Futuwwa and its secret is Ma’rifa, and not the other way around as can be seen today in the Subcontinent and in North Africa.
Imam al-Jajid used to say: “If I had known a higher science than Tasawwuf, I would have gone to it even on all fours.”
It is a science, but the point is that it does not change at all.
In men of knowledge there is a realism that they have to adapt to what they have in front of them. There was a great Sufi who when he was working in the Tafilalet Mountains of Morocco, he heard that the tribes had begun to worship the spirits of animals and this kind of thing; When he found out, he decided to go to save it.
The Fuqaha of Fes heard about what happened: “It seems that there is a Sufi in the mountains who is doing da’wa to those who live in those places.
One of the ‘ulama said, “I will go and see what happens.” The ‘alim went up the mountains and entered a tiny mosque; Soon one of the peasants arrived and entered with his boots full of mud and dirt and began to make two rak’ats while the ‘Alim could not take his eyes off the man with his huge boots in the middle of the mosque. When he met the Sufi he told him: “When I was in the mosque, a peasant came in with his boots on! I thought you were here to teach them Islam!”
The Sufi said, “It took me two years to get them into the mosque; take OFF YOUR boots!”
This is Tasawwuf. It is knowledge, it is knowledge of the ‘I’.
The knowledge of the ‘I’ is not Freudian psychology, it is not psychiatry, it is existential. Riyadh: What were the intellectual tendencies that influenced you before your conversion to Islam? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: To begin with, we don’t like the word ‘conversion’.
We Muslims don’t like the word ‘conversion’ because it means that you have been cut off from nature.
Christianity is an unnatural religion that imposes an ideology of magical transactions; bread, wine, and everything else.
Judaism is a tribal religion that is pure, but only for its own people.
I cannot ‘convert’ to Judaism because I do not belong to the tribe, but you convert to Christianity because you change reality and believe that bread is flesh and wine is blood; You have to enter an imaginary realm.
Islam, on the other hand, is Din al-Fitra.
It is the transaction of nature.
In this sense, becoming a Muslim is like waking up and recognizing things as they are.
It is recognition.
We say that one ‘enters’ Islam, just as one enters a house.
When Muslims conquered a territory they said they had ‘opened’ it to Islam.
As far as the question you asked me is concerned, if I knew the answer I would know everything!
I mean, all the terrible things that I had done, all those heinous things got me to the point where I had to ask myself very serious questions.
So it wasn’t my virtue that led me to be a Muslim, but a wonderful series of wrong actions for which I will always be grateful! Riyadh: How and when did you enter Islam? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: It’s been a long time to remember.
Almost half a century! I entered Islam by pronouncing the Shahada with Imam Khatib of the Qarawiyyin Mosque of Fes and the witnesses were Shaykh ‘Abdalkarim Da’udi, the Imam, and ‘Allal al-Fassi, the then leader of the Istiqlal Party of Morocco, who told me: “Stay away from the Sufis.” After a while I asked him: “What do you think of Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib?”, knowing that the Shaykh had been the teacher of ‘Allal al-Fasi in the Qarawiyyin; ‘Allal al-Fasi’s speeches were well known for having outstanding Arabic. When I mentioned the Shaykh’s name, ‘Allal al-Fasi said: “Ah, well, he is different!”
In those days I also saw that people see things from the outside as if ‘these are the ‘ulama’, ‘these are the Sufis’, ‘those are the modernists’; they separate everything.
But the truth is that, apart from the Shi’a, we all pray together and we do not see each other that way, as outsiders do.
The other day I was with some Somalis to whom I said: “I pray to Allah for your Sufis, for your Wahhabis and for your pirates!” Riyadh: What reasons did you have for joining Islam? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: All the reasons in the world.
The reason itself!
In my youth I met many Christian priests who were highly respected in their communities; one of them was Charles Raven, an Anglican theologian with an excellent reputation.
Charles Raven was a charming man, rector and professor at the University of Cambridge; On one occasion he confessed to me that in the past he did not believe in anything.
Then he began to study the science of ornithology and told me: “Ornithology convinced me of the existence of God because I was faced with something of such complexity, sophistication and synchrony of events in the world of birds, that there was no choice but to recognize it as a spiritual, divine phenomenon. I became a believer through ornithology, and Anglicanism is the atmosphere in which I fulfill my duties to God.”
I suppose you could say that my case is similar. Riyadh: What made you lean towards Sufism? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: I did not ‘lean’ towards Sufism.
I already knew that it was the core of the knowledge of Islam and that it could not be obtained without Islam.
He knew that one had to enter Islam to achieve it.
People in the West believe that you can have Sufism without Islam, gangsters like Idris Shah and those dogs.
But it can’t be done.
You have to enter Islam, and the Qur’an says: “Enter the houses through their doors.”
You have to enter with the Shahada, and Shahada means to bear witness.
It means to witness, and from one point of view, Tasawwuf is to witness to the Divine.
A very interesting question! Riyadh: How was the meeting with your first Shaykh? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: If the question is “How did I find him?” the answer is, “I didn’t find him, he was the one who found me! I had heard that in Meknes lived a great Shaykh; so I went to his zawiyya but the Shaykh was not there. One of the fuqara said, “I know where he is. He’s in the country, he’s gone to So-and-so’s house… I can take him. We’ll go by car and you can see it.” We drive for an hour or two into the countryside until we reach a very large farm; As we got out of the car the owner of the house came running towards us and said: “What a pity! Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib is gone. He just left a few minutes ago!”
Seeing us so disappointed, the owner of the house said: “It doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter; Enter—we all know Moroccan hospitality—come in and have some tea!”
The man brought us in, we sat down, and just as we were having tea, one of the servants came in in hurry saying, “He’s back, he’s back! The Shaykh is back!”
Indeed, Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib’s car approached the house, the door opened, and the Shaykh got out of it while the driver said: “I don’t understand what he is doing; we were on our way to Meknes when suddenly he said: ‘turn around!’ ‘What?’ I said. ‘Turn around; I’ve forgotten one thing.'”
That was my meeting with the Shaykh.
It was he who found me! Riyad: What were the aspects of your teaching that influenced you the most? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: There was no aspect at all.
He was the most impressing.
He was the most impressive.
It wasn’t about what he looked like, it was him.
It was a pure, pure Islam under the Fiqh of Imam Malik.
What impressed was the Shaykh.
He was an extraordinary man.
What I mean once again, is that it’s a matter of ‘amal.
It all comes down to behavior.
When King Muhammad V came back to power in Morocco ─something for which the Shaykh had fought─ all the Sufi Shuyuj were told that they had to go to Rabat to give bayat to the king; but Shaykh ibn al-Habib said: “I will not go. I only know one King and I don’t intend to go.”
They told him, “If he doesn’t go, he will have problems and may end up in jail,” to which the Shaykh said, “I don’t care; that’s none of my business.”
He insisted on not going, but then they told him: “If you don’t go, maybe it won’t cause problems for you, but it will cause problems for your fuqara.”
And then he decided to go.
On the day of the meeting in Rabat, a large hall had been set up where those great Shuyuj from all over Morocco were to meet to bow their necks before the king.
When they were all seated, and just at the last minute, the sound of Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib’s staff began to be heard advancing towards the center of the hall.
“He’s come! We knew he would come!” the Shuyuj said to one another.
The Shaykh got up on the dais, turned to them, and greeted them.
And then he said: “I have come to greet you and wish you a fruitful meeting; but I must apologize for not being able to stay because I have other things to do. As salaam alaykum”.
This is what I mean!
It is said that the good butcher does not break the bone, but cuts right around the joint! Riyad: I understand what you mean when you say, “It was him.” Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: Yes, it was his way of facing things. Riyad: The Diwan of his Shaykh is considered to be one of the great texts of the Tasawwuf. Could you tell us something about that? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: To begin with, it is written in a very high level of Arabic.
To such an extent that the Fuqara used to teach Arabic to their children based on the Diwan.
People who know Arabic and do not know Tasawwuf read it and are impressed to see the Arabic with which it is written.
The content speaks for itself. Riyadh: You may have already answered this question, but could you tell us something about the personal characteristics of Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: When you were with him, he reminded you of Allah.
That’s how it was.
When you were with him, he reminded you of Allah.
On one occasion when I was having dinner with ‘Allal al-Fasi, the great political leader, he repeated to me over and over again: “You must not have a Shaykh”; and at that moment a messenger entered, knelt down, kissed the hand of ‘Allal al-Fasi and handed him a document. Then I said, “But sir, you are a Shaykh! What happens is that you are a Shaykh of this world, of Dunia, and he is a Shaykh of knowledge. He can’t tell me ‘you shouldn’t have a Shaykh’. What happens is that when I look at you you remind me of the crises of this world. But when I look at him, it reminds me of Allah.”
In the Diwan it says: “The Shaykh make people remember Allah.”
And the Qur’an says, “When you forget, remember.” Riyadh: Tell me about the period between the death of Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib and the meeting with his second Shaykh. Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: What is interesting about my second Shaykh is that Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib was the one who found me and Shaykh al-Fayturi was also the one who found me.
At that time we were a community of new Muslims living in Bristol Gardens, in London, when one day a huge black car with diplomatic license plates came to the door from which a person from the Libyan Embassy came out.
It was a young man who said to me, “I come from my Shaykh. We have heard of you and he has sent me to tell you: ‘Come and visit me.'”
We had another series of contacts and, at one point, I decided to go visit him.
But he sent someone for me; when he arrived, I turned to Hajjj ‘Abdullaziz Rahimahullah and said, “He has come to take me away!”
And that’s how I ended up in Benghazi, a very different place than it is now. Riyad: This is an aspect that I have not been able to find anything written about.
The question is: could you give me an outline of what is happening in Jalwa? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: Of course not!
(laughing) No!
No! Riyad: The next question is: can you tell me about Fana’? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: No.
He has to understand that there are things that are not talked about.
There are two verses in the Diwan where Shaykh ibn al-Habib says: “Ya taliban fana fi’llah, qul da’iman ‘Allah’, ‘Allah’. Wa ghib fihi an siwahu, washhad bi qalbika Allah.” [1] Here’s the answer.
It’s in the Diwan.
But you must understand that you have an Adab.
It is said that if you talk to a beautiful woman in front of other men, you are insulting her.
Isn’t that true?
You’re decreasing in value. Next question! Riyad: What advice did your Shaykh, Shaykh al-Fayturi, give you when you became Shaykh? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: He said, “Now there’s no hand on your hand anymore.”
That’s all he said.
And then he said that wonderful phrase that I have already mentioned: “After having been in the House of Allah, where are you going but to Madinah?”
You have to go to the fundamentals of the Deen.
That’s all. Riyadh: How did you come to the conclusion that ‘Amal Ahl al-Madinah is the best expression of Islam or Islamic practice? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: The ‘Amal Ahl al-Madinah is a starting point.
There is a movement of people called the Salaf.
In other words, they follow the original community of Islam; but the truth is that the Salaf were Madinah’s people.
Those who are now called Salaf are not Salafi because in fact they follow Ibn Taymiyyah, who was a great ‘alim of the Middle Ages, when the School of Madinah is the teachings of Imam Malik. It is another way of saying that Imam Malik is not the ‘father’ of a Madhhab, of a School, but he is the Imam of Dar al-Hijrah.
Imam Malik is the one who embodies all the teachings and sciences of Madinah.
Madinah means ‘the city of the Din’, the ‘place of the Din’, the place of religion itself.
I don’t have to defend him; Ibn Taymiyyah, who was actually Hanbali, wrote a very important text entitled ‘The Supremacy of the Amal of the Ahl al-Madinah with respect to all the Schools’, so he is my defender! [2] Riyad: Would you say that the Da’wa of the Murabitun Movement arises from your understanding of ‘Amal Ahl al-Madinah? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: No, it actually came from an energy.
It arose from the fuqara.
Of the people who had entered Islam and become part of it, of the determined support of the Muslims who were already there and liked what they saw.
We were getting into the stream of something that was already there.
My most determined allies have always been the Pujaabi, then as now.
They are people of strong Din and strong character.
Colonel Rahim, rahimahullah, the author of ‘Jesus, Prophet of Islam’, serves as an example.
Mirza Rashid, the lawyer, also Pujabi.
I have always had that support.
I mean that the Deen is strong in the Subcontinent.
Among the Arabs it has almost completely disappeared.
He is no longer there. Riyadh: What are the priorities of the Movement for you? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: To stay united, to help each other and not to fight against each other.
Those are the priorities!
They are an elite, so they have an obligation not to fight each other.
That’s the only way he’ll be able to overflow, spread, and strengthen other people. Riyadh: You have said on numerous occasions that, because it is based on modernity, today’s society will inevitably collapse. Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: Do you think I can change it?
It looks like it’s already collapsing!
It’s not a prophecy, it’s all over the news! We can see it every day. Riyadh: How do you think Islam can save humanity from the annihilation it is facing? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: El Rasul, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, said: “From my time until the end of time, each epoch will be worse than the last.”
And he said that in the end you won’t be able to find someone who says ‘La ilaha illa’llah’. We don’t believe in happy endings, it’s being destroyed.
Happy endings are for the Otherworld, this one here is coming to an end ─ entropy.
But the Rasul, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, said that if the Last Day surprises you when you are planting a tree, you should keep doing it. This is Tasawwuf. That’s how you face reality. The Shi’as are the ones who have an apocalyptic happy ending with the angels descending, everyone happy, the Mahdi appearing and everyone celebrating; it is nothing more than an absurdity.
We are not utopian or futuristic.
We are facing what we have now, not the future.
The only thing that can encourage us is that when we read the texts of exalted people from other times they usually say: “This is the worst time that has ever existed, there has never been anything as bad as this.”
I mean that, for Tacitus, his time was “the most dreadful time. We have just lived through the most hellish era, nothing can be as terrible as this!”
They also said it in the Renaissance.
And they keep saying it now, so we’re going to have to do the best we can.
(He laughs and pauses for a moment.)
You have to be optimistic in the long term and pessimistic in the short term. Riyadh: What role can the Murabitun Movement play in the revitalization of Islam? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: Themselves.
You must understand that the most you can do is produce quality men and women.
You need to have the yeast because when you have it, it can be put in the bread.
It has always been the same, at all times and in all places. People of knowledge have elevated what was around them by calling things by their name, not with ideology. Riyadh: How do you understand what is called ‘the global economic crisis’? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: Usury.
It is nothing more than usury.
It is appropriating an excess.
Usury goes against nature.
We don’t need Islam to tell us because Christianity had already done it.
It is ‘against nature’, against nature.
There are a limited number of things in the world, which is why you can’t keep increasing and increasing every time you make an exchange.
It’s not possible.
This is what is happening now and it goes against nature.
To call it capitalism, to call it as Marx did – which was financed by the Rothschilds – ‘surplus value’, are nothing more than polite words.
It’s like ‘surrender’.
When something disgusting is done, a polite word is used, but it is usury.
There is no global crisis.
You can’t ask for more and more every time you make an exchange.
And they know this very well because to face the crisis they have had to lower interest rates to 0.5%, as if it were an unfortunate crisis and when it is over, they will take it all over again.
It is usury.
But the continued practice of usury is madness, it is a psychosis.
The matter itself is a mathematical fraud, but practicing it is psychosis.
It’s not smart.
It’s a form of insanity because you’re believing in something you know isn’t true, which is pure insanity.
It’s not that you don’t know.
You know it and you keep behaving that way.
So what they call ‘capitalism’ is usury and what they call ‘usury’ is a form of madness.
It has a psychology, it is a psychosis, a greedy psychosis!
Crazy people tend to get thinner and thinner, don’t they?
But loan sharks are getting fatter and fatter!
It is a very special psychosis. Riyadh: What role does trade play in an Islamic society? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: Islam IS trade and exchange.
Today two commercial contracts: one with God and the other with human beings.
The first is La ilaha illa’llah, it is ‘ibada, to worship God; This is the primary contract.
The second contract is trade, exchange; and the exchange must have rules, including all the rules that prevent usury.
Imam Malik said: “Let there be no usury even if it is a blade of grass.”
That is the second Shahada: Muhammad Rasulullah; And that is commerce.
This is the answer.
Islam is nothing more than transactions.
Transactions with Allah, ‘ibada; The transactions between human beings and the exchange of things is Fiqh.
It is easy to see that Islam is not complicated.
Part of the psychosis of modern people is that they’ve made everything complicated, all the transactions of our day. But now people are starting to notice, normal people are seeing it.
People in the streets of Athens, New York, Tel Aviv and Paris; The people who are demonstrating are because they have seen it.
They’re not stupid, but the madness continues… for a while!
Riyadh: You have been very active in minting gold and silver coins.
What do those coins mean? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: The reason he abandoned Christianity was that the Christians said that the bread was the flesh – hic est corpus – and that the wine was the blood of Jesus, may Allah forgive us.
In Spain the priests had such an Inquisition, that if you didn’t believe it they tortured you and burned you.
But the peasants have an expression; they say: “This man is sane: he calls bread bread and wine he calls wine.”
Which meant that he did not tell the lies of the priests and their claim that the bread and wine were the flesh and blood of Jesus.
The sane peasant said ‘bread, bread and wine, wine’; not bread as a sacrament or wine as a sacrament.
The same goes for people who trade in things that don’t exist.
What Christians did with bread and wine—using the priests who ruled Europe for three or four hundred years—bankers now do with money.
They call paper gold.
Plastic is called a ‘gold card’.
It’s crazy.
It’s nothing but plastic, it’s pure garbage!
The whole thing is a scam, from head to toe.
Gold is gold.
De Gaulle said: “Everyone knows that gold has value.”
He was a man of great humility and as soon as he said it, they had him kicked out.
He was a great president of France who said that they had to use gold instead of the dollar; barely a year had passed when De Gaulle had been deposed and was living in exile in Ireland.
His place was taken by a member of the Rothschild family, Monsieur Pompidou.
So I’m not alone!
De Gaulle is my witness!
Gold is gold.
It is the practice of the people of Madinah.
It is Sunna.
It is the practice of Muslims and always has been.
Tariq, Parvez’s brother[3], who is from the Punjab, is minting coins and uses the same seal used by the Mughal Emperor Shah Jahan for the Dinar of the Mughal Empire.
“As if nothing had happened.”
The only thing that happens is that we just opened the store!
It’s getting interesting. Riyadh: What are the reasons for the establishment of Dallas College? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: It is about education; People are taught to go out and earn money for other people who will earn millions and billions in reward while they will get a very small share.
What I want are people who know who they are, where they are and what they do.
Consequently, the things to be studied are different.
Our curriculum is not the same as that of the University of Cape Town, Cambridge or Oxford, because they are places that have stopped teaching.
What is happening in the world is not taught. An interesting aspect of what I have just mentioned is that I am currently writing a book about the great political writers of Rome; And what I’ve found is that all relevant comments have been written by women.
My way of explaining it is that men think, “This is completely useless and no one is going to pay the slightest attention to it; let us then let women entertain themselves with it, just as they used to entertain themselves by embroidering and making stockings.”
And now we have these amazing books written by brilliant women who are true scholars, because men don’t see that there is any future for that.
They are not able to relate it to what they call ‘the real world that is out there’ when in fact it is the only thing that is related to ‘the real world’.
It is not an accidental fact that these comments are written by women because this shows that, in our society, women are freer than men.
They are more real.
Does what I say make sense?
It’s very interesting.
Books are wonderful… they are not one or two; I have five books written by learned women from California to Durham and Cambridge, and other peculiar universities, with sensational texts that speak of the ancient Romans.
And the men?
They have no idea what’s going on.
They have that whole series of politicians who we just have to look at.
The President of the Republic of France appeared on television last night to tell the people: “I am going to rescue France from this terrible economic crisis.
I’m going to increase the value added tax (VAT), so that every time you buy something the price will go up by 20%.
Every time you buy something, 20% of that money will be given to the bankers!
Do you see?
That money will not be used for your hospitals, your education or your universities, it will go directly to the banks.
He’s gone crazy!
I have nothing to explain, they are the ones who have to explain many things to us. Riyadh: What role do you think traditional universities such as Qarawiyyin, az-Zaytuna and al-Azhar can play? Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: The Qarawiyyin of Fes has a long tradition in teaching the Arabic language.
Al-Azhar: Sa’id Ramadan, married to the daughter of Hasan al-Banna, the founder of the Ijwan al-Muslimin, was a friend of mine and a person with extraordinary intellect.
He had been ruthlessly tortured by Nasser’s people.
He used to tell me, “Don’t worry, you can get a fatwa from al-Azhar on any subject. Everything you need, they will give it to you without any problem!”
That was the reputation they had for having betrayed themselves, first with Nasser, then with Sadat and then with Mubarak; and now, as we well know, the Ijwan al-Muslimin have become the ones who dictate the election.
Al-Azhar used to be an institution of great prestige and Shaykh ‘Illish was the great advocate of Imam Malik’s Fiqh who in his time expelled all these modernists.
He drove them out with his sword.
He chased them through the corridors of al-Azhar with his sword drawn! The Qarawiyyin has a great tradition and there are places in the Sahara, in Algeria and in the Tafilalet of Morocco where the pure, pure, pure Den is taught; there is no doubt about it.
About the Himalayas I cannot answer.
So it’s all there.
But the Arab world is devastated. Riyadh: That was the last of my twenty-five questions! Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: Twenty-five questions?
Have I won an award? Riyadh: Question twenty-six should be how to ask the right questions?
It’s something I have to learn. Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: Let’s go back to Dallas College.
If you want to understand Australia, you’ll have to read ‘Kangaroo’ by D.H. Lawrence.
If you want to understand the Second World War you have to read ‘The Skin’ by Malaparte.
There are a whole series of works that shed light on things in order to understand them.
The same goes for Ernst Jünger.
If you want to understand the crisis of modern thought you have to read Jünger, because he has delved into the subject in a very remarkable way.
This is the kind of books that are proposed to people.
You won’t be able to understand Australia if you talk about demography, trade or even anthropology, it won’t clarify anything.
But if you read ‘Kangaroo’ imaginatively, not as a reportage, you will understand the relationship that the people of Australia have with the land. Riyadh: D.H. Lawrence outrages many Australians because they don’t like what he has written.
They say that he was only there for a very short time. Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: If it only takes a minute to find out who a person is, how long do you have to stay in a country?
A thousand years?
In a minute you can know exactly. But Lawrence was also an extraordinary man capable of seeing.
Seeing doesn’t take much time and he was able to understand the relationship between the land and the people.
Australia’s crisis is dislocation, displacement, not Indonesians.
Nor will the Chinese.
Lawrence also irritates a lot of people in England, and for the same reasons!
He lived in that country for a long time and he still doesn’t like it.
He was a great writer and his book ‘The Fantasy of the Unconscious’ is very important.
What perhaps Australians should ask themselves is why he left.
Perhaps this is the question. Riyadh: They don’t deal with the real issues.
Now they are allowing the Americans to open a military base in Darwin; the reason for establishing it is to say that the Asians are going to invade Australia. Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi: Yes, very well, but it is necessary to keep in mind that, if you want to be protected, you do not ask for the help of a decrepit alcoholic.
You get a samurai!
Americans can’t even defend themselves.
The military base will not help Australia any more than all the military bases in the US.
have helped stop the systematic invasion of Mexico over the past fifty years.
When I went to the U.S.
for the first time in Texas there was a great excitement produced by new restaurants called Texmex in which they served part Texan and part Mexican food.
Now these restaurants are on the borders with Canada.
And they also say, “We’re having problems with Mexican bands in Los Angeles and Arizona.”
But it’s not about bands at all.
They are the advance guard of the army of the Mexican people!
They are an invading force, an occupying force.
The very idiots do not realize that they are armies.
They are tattooed, they have taken oaths of fidelity and leadership; something totally different from the U.S.
They have taken over the country step by step.
It’s very interesting.
And once again, if you want to understand Mexico you must read ‘The Feathered Serpent’ by D.H. Lawrence.
And if you want to understand England you have to read ‘Lady Chatterley’s Lover’, where all the crises of the class struggle appear.
Very intelligent.
This doesn’t mean I like Lawrence, but your doctor does like it when he gives you medicine.
If you know that he will make the right diagnosis, you are willing to put up with it.
It is not an intellectual question nor is it that “I don’t like the doctor’s face”.
The issue is “I don’t like this medicine”.
I talk about how if Lawrence came into this room I would run away because he was probably a monster; but my God, I was able to see what was happening.
Apart from the fact that, in reality, it was not so terrible.
Let us end this interview by doing Fatihah. Fatihah.
“The Madinan Way: The Soundness of the Basic Premises of the School of the People of Madinah”.
Translated by A’isha Bewley, Bookwork, Norwich, 2000. [3] Parvez Asad Shaykh was present at the interview.Riyad Asvat, Cape Town, January 31, 2012
